this has got me really wound up and i feel the need to post.
our friend an ex jw has just returned from a famous christmas market in germany, now my husband mentioned this to his mum as they have connections there.
she got all excited about how amazing the german christmas markets are there and how she would of def gone to one this year if she had the time!
I just posted a non-religious but respective Xmas card along with a small pressie (2 DVD's with hundreds of old WTS periodicals) wrapped in non-religious Xmas paper to a couple of local JW families. I wonder if I will ever find out what they thought.
Doug
a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.
as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.
why would bible writers have used such terms?
Magnum,
To understand the Bible (and any writing for that matter) come to terms with the culture, religo-politics, concepts, idioms, geography, and so on and on at the time when something was written. Each group was writing (and rewriting) to its own immediate community, with the purpose of influencing it.
This does not mean whether there is a God or not. It simply means that the Bible (which did not come into existence for many centuries after Jesus) is not the Word of God. Do not feel the need to throw God out with the rejection of the Bible, although you might ultimately reached that stage, when you find it comfortable to do so.
Doug
a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.
as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.
why would bible writers have used such terms?
Jewish scholar Daniel Boyarin recognises that some strands of Jewish thinking at the time accepted the ideas which are now considered uniquely Christian: "The Jewish Gospels: The Story of the Jewish Christ".
The first people who wrote and accepted the idea of a God-becoming-man were Jews.
Doug
a few days ago, i was in a book store, and i picked up a book providing a brief overview of classical mythology.
as i examined the opening pages, i read about tartaurus (place of punishment) and hades (god of the underworld).. it seems so odd that tartarus and hades would be mentioned in the new testament, and yet they were part of greek mythology which predated the new testament.
why would bible writers have used such terms?
Today there is a range of beliefs that fall under each umbrella of "Christianity" and "Judaism". At the time when the NT was being written, there was an even wider range of beliefs covered by the term, "Judaism", "Hebrews", and similar. (Christianity was part of Judaism at the time.) Some Jewish belief systems, particularly those of the disapora - such as Paul - were influenced by their neighbours' belief systems. Nothing new here, of course, as this was true of many key stories in the OT.
Many NT passages are sourced from texts that are no longer considered "Holy Scripture". Books that are today termed "apocryphal" were not considered as such at that time. A most excellent invaluable resource for NT studies is:
"Ancient Texts for New Testament Studies", by C. A. Evans. (Available at Book Depository and at Amazon.)
Doug
alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.
but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.
Cold Steel,
Are you saying that a person has to believe the Bible in order to believe there is a God?
Is it possible that a person can believe there is a God yet does not accept that the Bible is the Word of God?
Is it possible for a person to believe there is a God yet does not understand what the Bible is saying, or even know that any Bible exists?
The Bible did not come into existence until many centuries after the time of Jesus (=Joshua).
There is no universally accepted Bible, so does that mean there is no God?
Doug
alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.
but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.
EdenOne,
As HTBWC indicates, it is understood that the initial Deuteronomy scroll from Josiah's time underwent redaction (as did all the writings).
The Deuteronomic History hypothesis postulates that Deuteronomy, as formed during the 6th century Captivity, was the initial scroll of the national history that included Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings. (The book of Chronicles comes from the later Persian period, typified by Ezra. Some aspects of the book of Kings did not accord with his biases so he rewrote parts.)
Doug
alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.
but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.
runForever,
I have seen it suggested that the name of Mary given to Jesus' mother reflects the name Miriam.
Doug
alot of people are saying god is cruel for killing the firstborns and animals and people in the ten plagues.
but didn't god achieve his goal of making nations and people be in fear of him?.
40 years wandering in the desert and not one archaeological evidence.
The Torah is a compilation of writings from a number of (competing) sources. No writer was present at either creation myth, tower of Babel, the flood myth, stories concering Abram, and such. These were influenced by the Jews' encounters with neo-Babylonia during the Captivity.
Deuteronomy was likely freshly written when it was discovered and read to King Josiah. The name 'Moses' sounds similar to the name of a certain Pharoah.
As with the WTS, religions revisit and recreate history for propaganda purposes.
Doug
we all know the calculations used by the wt to arrive at 1914. fall of babylon in 607 (false year), gentile times, no zero year, ta-da, 1914.. what did they use before that?
i know it wasn't russell who came up with it - he just adopted it.
i'm just curious what they had to explain away when they made the transition.. .
Russell used pyramids and Leviticus 26 for his dates and "2520 years". I am not certain when Daniel 4 came into play. When Russell's dates failed, the WTS amended his dimensions for the pyramids (they stretched in the sun!) and they kept selling his books.
Russell was adamant that Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 BCE, with Babylon falling in 538 BCE. The changes to 607 and 539 coincided with the publication in 1942 of Parker and Dubberstein's study on Babylonian Chronology; it was the same year that Rutherford died.
Russell taught that 1874 marked the "parousia" which was to be followed by 40 years of the "Time of Trouble", which would end in 1914 with the outbreak of unprecedented peace under Zionism. (Hence the two-fold title of his magazine). See the above 1892 Watchtower quotation provided by ADCMS.
Russell was aware of the controversy over his 606 date for the destruction of Jerusalem but was not prepared to budge. If there was to be any change, he was prepared to consider shifting his end date to 1915.
Doug
looking for any weaknesses in my arguments.
i put them together not to show that the conclusions are true but rather to prove that the first premise in each of them (used by religious people) is incoherent with the rest of their beliefs.
please feel free to point out what you think works or doesn't work and why.
When people think logically, this proves that God exists.
When people do not think logically this proves that God does not exist.
Doug
